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Transcript of Interview of HE Ambassador Wang Xiaolong by TVNZ 1news on the 20th National Congress of the Communist Party of China
2022-10-15 14:50

Recently, HE Ambassador Wang Xiaolong took an interview by Cushla Norman, reporter of TVNZ, sharing his views on the significance and major deliverables of the upcoming 20th National Congress of the Communist Party of China , the national development and foreign policy of China , China-New Zealand relations, etc. Here is the full  transcript:

Cushla: Ambassador Wang, a very big event is taking place in China, Communist Party Congress (the 20th National Congress of the Communist Party of China), President Xi Jinping is expected to get the third term, but the third term and this considerable power that he will have, is it a good thing to China?

Ambassador Wang: The Party Congress takes place every 5 years, and this particular one, the 20th Congress, beginning over the weekend, takes place at a crucial juncture in the development of the country. We have just celebrated 100 years of the Chinese Communist Party, marking the achievement of what we call the First Centenary Goal, including the eradication of absolute poverty in the country. We're starting off on the journey towards the Second Centenary Goal, that is building China into a comprehensively modern socialist country by mid-century. At the same time, we're facing some headwinds, from COVID, and from what takes place in the rest of the world. So this is a crucial moment for the country. As for the Congress itself, we shall have many major deliverables, but two of them will be the most important. One is the election of the new leadership. And as I said, President Xi is expected to be reconfirmed as the core of the leadership, as the General Secretary of the Party. And another important deliverable will be, on the basis of reflections on the progress we have made, the lessons we can draw from that progress, to chart the roadmap forward for the next 5 years and beyond, zooming in on some of the specific objectives for this period of time and identify, at the same time, the major strategies and policy measures to achieve those goals. So, this is a very important congress, a very important milestone for the country. And as for the reconfirmation or the re-election of President Xi as the General Secretary of the Party, I think it is largely thanks to the overwhelming support he receives from across the nation and within the membership of the Party, because of the vision he has developed for the Party and the country and because of the institutional backstop he has put in place to deliver on that vision. So, in short, he is the leader that has the vision for the country, and he also has the proven track record to show for it.

Cushla: And are there checks and balances though on his considerable power?

Ambassador Wang:  We have this tradition of collective leadership.

Cushla: You are departing from the tradition now?

Ambassador Wang: No, definitely not. But at the same time, there is overwhelming support for General Secretary Xi to continue as the core of the leadership. And let me add that apart from the proven track record, the challenges we see ahead have accentuated the support he enjoys within the country. He is widely seen as the best leader to steer the country through some of the possible rough patches ahead to make sure that we will be able to achieve the goals we have set for ourselves.

Cushla: You know, Deng Xiaoping once said over-concentration of leadership is not a good thing. Are we there now with President Xi?

Ambassador Wang: We have what we call the whole process democratic system in the country and within the Party itself. It is largely based on consensus building. That is, I think, still the tradition we adhere to, but with clearly Party General Secretary Xi Jinping as the core of the leadership for the country and for the party.

Cushla: Xi Jinping, though, is going to be the most powerful Chinese leader since Mao Zedong. What checks and balances will there be on his leadership?

Ambassador Wang: I think, again, everyone, including the top leadership, will have to function within the parameters of the Constitution and within the Charter for the Party. That includes everyone in the leadership. And that's the best guarantee that whatever decisions that the leadership would adopt, will reflect the sentiments of the country and of the broad Party membership.

Cushla: So you don't see it as one man domination?

Ambassador Wang: No, it has never been like that. It has always been a collective leadership on the basis of our own democratic system within the Party and within the country, although it may not be exactly the same as some of what is in place in some of the other countries. But no two countries in this world have exactly the same political systems. At the end of the day, it will have to be the people of that particular country to make the call on what kind of political systems they want to adopt and what kind of policies they want to implement.

Cushla: Xi Jinping has abolished the two-term limit. A lot of commentators say this is a departure from collective leadership.

Ambassador Wang: No, definitely not.

Cushla: Why not?

Ambassador Wang: As for the reasons I’ve explained.

Cushla: Thank you. Do you expect Xi Jinping will rule for life?

Ambassador Wang: Well. So, what the Congress will decide is what will happen in the next 5 years. And of course, they will have implications beyond that period. But as to what will happen beyond those 5 years, particularly on some of the specific issues, I think that will have to be decided in the next stages, probably at the next congress.

Cushla: So you see a third term of Xi Jinping is good for China and the world?

Ambassador Wang: I think so. It's first and foremost good for China. And given the size of Chinese economy and the role it plays in this world, what is good for China will also be good for the world. Because we are already the second biggest economy in the world. We account for about 18 % of the global economy and we have contributed consistently over the past decade over 30 % of global growth. So what is good for China, for Chinese economy, for its continued and stable growth and development in the next years will be good news for the world as well. And on top of that, I think the Party Congress will also reaffirm our commitment to the reform and opening-up process, meaning that we will continue to share the dividends and opportunities from China's development with the rest of the world.

Cushla: Do you see similarities between Xi Jinping and Mao Zedong?

Ambassador Wang: They're both great leaders with great visions for the country. And both of them receive overwhelming support from the people. So if there are similarities, yes, these are, I think, some of the most prominent similarities between these two great leaders of the nation, and we're lucky to have them both.

Cushla: We've seen a more assertive, rigid, authoritarian China over the past 10 years, or that will the aggression continue?

Ambassador Wang: Well, I beg to disagree with the premise of that question because over the past years in terms of our foreign policy, for example, we have adhered to what we call an independent foreign policy of peace. The central goal of that foreign policy is to create a peaceful and favorable environment for our domestic goals to be achieved. And essentially, that's growing the economy and improving people's lives. So whatever we do in terms of our external environment is fit for that purpose. As part of that policy, we have always stood for peace and for common development, for example. And we have tried our best to develop friendly and cooperative relations with all other countries in this world. We have supported multilateralism and international cooperation to address some of the common challenges facing international community, including climate change, including the pandemic.

Cushla: You say you stand for peace, but we have seen military drills around Taiwan, we’ve seen the crushing of dissent of Hong Kong, crushing of religious regions in Xinjiang. What do you say to that? That's not standing for peace, is it?

Ambassador Wang: On the issue of Taiwan, I think coming back to the Party Congress we were talking about, the main message from the Congress on that will be we’ll continue our maximum effort to promote the peaceful unification of the country on the basis of the one-China Principle, and also the concept of One Country Two Systems. We'll continue to do so. And as has been demonstrated repeatedly, the best guarantee for peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait would be adherence to one-China Principle. And any deviation from that very important principle will undermine peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait, and in the wider Asia Pacific region, which goes against the interest of everyone.

Cushla: What about Xinjiang and Hong Kong if you can address that, though? The crushing of freedoms. It’s not seemed peace.

Ambassador Wang: If you look at the situation in Xinjiang, anyone with open eyes and an open mind would see the progress that has been made there in terms of the enormous economic and social development, in terms of the remarkable improvements in people's lives, and in terms of the comprehensive human rights enjoyed by the people there, people from all ethnic backgrounds. And that's what we've been doing in Xijiang and that's what we will continue to do on the basis of maintaining social stability, as well as promoting unity and solidarity among people of all ethnic backgrounds. And the aim, again, is to make sure that people enjoy progressively better lives.

Cushla: You talk about reunification with Taiwan, but the PRC has never actually governed Taiwan. So reunification is not quite right.

Ambassador Wang: Taiwan has been a part of China for a long time, going back to over a thousand years ago.

Cushla: But Taiwan is never been a part of the PRC.

Ambassador Wang: The current separation of Taiwan and mainland is the result of the civil war. And if you look at the history, what happened at the end of WWII, and if you look at the Cairo Declaration, and the Potsdam Proclamation, there was a clear commitment on the part of the international community to restore Taiwan to China. And it is because Taiwan was ceded from China through a war of  invasion by Japan back in 1895. So that war resulted in the cession of Taiwan as a colony for Japan. That's the height of historical injustice. What happened at the end of WWII is to return that to China. But then as the result of the civil war, the KMT government fled with the troops to Taiwan, creating the current political situation. But that doesn't change the fact that Taiwan remains part of China, and that has been recognized by the broad membership of the international community, as best embodied in the UN resolution adopted back in 1971, recognizing Taiwan as part of China and the government of the People's Republic of China as the sole legal representative of China. And that is also the political foundation of our diplomatic relationships with over 170 countries in this world, including New Zealand.

Cushla: Now, Xi Jinping has said that the Taiwan issue cannot go on being passed from generation to generation. Do you think he is going to take over and invade Taiwan in his third term?

Ambassador Wang: So we are doing all we can to create the conditions for the peaceful reunification of  the country. But at the same time, we won't hesitate to safeguard resolutely the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of the country, opposing firmly any attempt to separate Taiwan from China, or any attempt to interfere in the internal affairs of China from any foreign power.

Cushla: Taiwan, though, will not compromise on its democratic values and freedoms. So how does this get resolved?

Ambassador Wang: We have always made it clear throughout the years that we're willing to work out a solution between the two sides of the Taiwan Strait on the basis of One Country Two Systems to take into account the realities in Taiwan. So that is still the principle we want to adopt for the final solution of the peaceful reunification in the country.

Cushla: So Hong Kong Style?

Ambassador Wang: Yeah, along similar lines, but Taiwan will have its own particularities that will have to be taken into account of course. But again, the overall framework is the one-China principle. On that basis, I think we could find ways that we would meet with agreement and support of people from both sides of the Taiwan Strait.

Cushla: COVID is really hurting the economy in China at the moment, and you're looking at maybe 3 % growth. If you don't deliver on prosperity, is there a risk of the social unrest?

Ambassador Wang: Well, I think we've done a reasonably good job of integrating the need to address COVID on one hand and the need to ensure continued economic growth on the other. Of course, COVID has resulted in some pressures, and shorter term there will be challenges. There is no doubt about that. But longer term, the fundamentals driving China's growth remain strong. So, we have full confidence that in longer term, we will be able to continue to deal with COVID successfully on one hand and on the other to ensure the continued strong growth of the Chinese economy.

Cushla: From speaking to people who live in China, they are blaming Xi Jinping for the slowdown. Does he risk losing popularity?

Ambassador Wang: Well, if you ask the man on the street, I think there's overwhelming support for the approach we have taken, including what we call the dynamic zero-COVID approach, because that has saved millions of lives potentially. I think between New Zealand and China, we share a lot in common between our approaches, at least in the initial stages of dealing with COVID. Both of us put protecting people's lives front and center as an approach and that continues to be, I think, the top priority for us - protecting people's lives and on that basis, to ensure overall stable growth of the economy.

Cushla: So how does Xi Jinping kick start the economy? What are we expecting to see out of the Congress of the direction of the economy?

Ambassador Wang: I think we have taken a couple of measures to support the economy. And I wouldn't be surprised that the Party Congress will come up with fresh measures to continue that effort. But I think the idea is still to integrate those sets of needs, and to ensure the overall long-term development of the country.

Cushla: So it’s highly likely Xi Jinping will get his third term. What do you think that means for the relationship with New Zealand? What does a third term of President Xi mean for New Zealand?

Ambassador Wang: As I said, the continued stable growth of the Chinese economy and the continued overall development of China as a country is good news for the rest of the world, including our partners like New Zealand. Because we are mutually important trading partners, and particularly as far as New Zealand is concerned, China is by far the biggest trading partner and also the source of the biggest trade surplus for New Zealand. So, a strong economy, the continued growth of China, I think, is good news for NZ. And personally, President Xi has invested a lot in this relationship, developing person to person relations with the leaders of this country, and reaching broad consensus on how to steer the relationship to the next levels on the basis of the Comprehensive Strategic Partnership we’ve established between ourselves. I think with the continued leadership of President Xi, we'll see some continued significant growth in the bilateral relationship.

Cushla: Economic growth? What do you mean by in the bilateral relationship there will be significant growth you are talking about?

Ambassador: Well, we have a very comprehensive relationship. Economics is an important part of it. Trade, investment, we have already come very far on that front, but there is still further room to grow. And we could diversify from some of the traditional areas into some of the new areas, like climate change, like the adoption of clean and renewable energy sources, like the development of sustainable agriculture. But our relationship goes way beyond economics. On the global level and regional level, we are also close partners. For example, we have a lot of common interests in what happens in this part of the world. And also at people to people level, which is one of the strongest pillars for our relationship, we also have a broad and rich agenda that have strengthened over the years. We have a longstanding people to people relationship between our two countries. One example is the significant Chinese community here and the contributions they made to the development locally here in New Zealand and in supporting the growth of the bilateral relationship.

Cushla: Any idea when China might open up again?

Ambassador Wang: Hopefully sooner rather than later, but we have to take one step at a time to make sure that we keep the virus under control, and that in longer term will create the best condition for robust and sustainable growth and development of the economy.

Cushla: Sorry, and just back to Taiwan, you know the recent drills. Are you not creating a climate of fear and uncertainty in the Taiwan Strait? And is that the action of a stable country?

Ambassador Wang: Again, we want peaceful reunification, but at the same time, we won’t hesitate to take the necessary measures to safeguard our sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Cushla: But you don’t want war, do you?

Ambassador Wang: No. The people in Taiwan are our compatriots and this is our home, our region. And the last thing we want to see is war in this region. That's why we want to make our maximum efforts to realize peaceful reunification of the country. But it seems that there are forces in this world that don't want to see that prospect and they’re trying to...

Cushla: The United States?

Ambassador Wang: Well, you see what has happened. What has happened more recently on the part of China, it is in response to those developments. And hopefully the countries that have been provocative could stop those provocations and can create the conditions for the peaceful reunification of the country to take place. That is the desire of people on both sides.

Cushla: You can clearly see conflict would be disastrous for Taiwan, China and globally.

Ambassador Wang: Indeed, so we will be the last people that would like to see war and conflict break out in our part of the region. But again, while we strive for peaceful reunification, we won't hesitate to safeguard our interests, our territorial integrity, if necessary.

Cushla: And is anything else you would like to mention?

Ambassador Wang: Well, maybe a little bit on the challenges ahead. Externally, the biggest challenge for us would be the very profound and complex transformations going on in this world - the rise of protectionism, hegemonism and unilateralism, the move of very small number of countries to create divisions and confrontation, and even to stir conflicts and wars, which poses a direct threat to peace and stability, which obviously again goes against the interests of all of us. And internally, the biggest challenge facing us going forward will be how to pull off the transformation or the transition towards a high-quality development pathway, featuring innovation, coordination, sustainability, openness and inclusiveness. But given the progress we’ve made over the years, which has laid a solid foundation for addressing some of these challenges, and given the leadership of the Party and most importantly, given the support and participation of the people we are confident that we’ll be able to overcome whatever the obstacles that may arise on the way forward.

Cushla: That external challenge you pointing to the US and trade war?

Ambassador Wang: Well, if you’ve witnessed what has happened more recently, including the new National Security Strategy they just issued, and the package of export bans that they imposed on the Chinese entities, and they've made no secret that their aim is to slow down the development of China.

Cushla: And that’s your biggest threat?

Ambassador Wang: Well, they try to hurt others, but essentially, they would possibly shoot themselves in the foot. Again, we are fully confident that we will be able to overcome whatever obstacles.

Cushla: Thank you very much. What did you say that they just issued a National Security Strategy?

Ambassador Wang: Yes, last night. They have stated in that, especially one of the biggest aims is to outcompete China. The businesses compete, but we don't believe in competitions between countries, because in competitions, there will be winners and losers. And the underlying logic would be a zero-sum game, which is not in the interest of cooperation, because we believe in mutually beneficial cooperation that will work for all of us, and that will also support the broad-based international cooperation to address some of the common challenges we face, again like climate change.

Cushla: Just the trade between Taiwan and China. How much trade are you doing?

Ambassador Wang: I don’t have the figures. But it's quite significant.

Cushla: It is something like 40 % of Taiwan’s products go to China.

Ambassador Wang: So economically, I think the two sides of the Strait are deeply integrated with one another.

Cushla: Yeah, the semiconductors and microchips.

Ambassador Wang: The microchips, and agricultural products as well. A large part of those come to the mainland market.

Cushla: Someone suggested to me that New Zealand could be a “honest broker” in the China -Taiwan tension. Could you see that? Could you see New Zealand playing any kind of role there?

Ambassador Wang: I think the best role to be played by a country like New Zealand is to support the One-China principle. And if members of international community make it very clear that the efforts to seek independence or separation in Taiwan from China won’t be supported, that is a very clear message, and that would be the best message that can be sent in support of peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait.

Cushla: Because it's really the domestic economy of China that had suffered under the COVID lockdowns, how’s your exports been going?

Ambassador Wang: That's what has been holding up pretty well. And actually, it's been quite strong, I think, growing in double digits over the past year. And so is incoming FDI growing double digits year on year as well. So that shows, I think, the strength of the economy. And in a sense, the international investors are voting with their money in the future of China.

Cushla: They are choosing to invest in China.

Ambassador Wang: Yes, for all the talk you hear,  there is a lot of fear mongering. If anything they say is what is to go by, the Chinese economy would have collapsed numerous times over the past years. None of those has happened.

Cushla: Maybe some recession on the horizon?

Ambassador Wang: No, I don't think so. There will be ups and downs in the growth. But I think the economy will keep growing. There's no doubt about that. And in the longer term, again, the fundamentals are there, and they remain strong. So the prospects remain good.

Cushla: I'm interested in the Standing Committee. A woman has never been on it, am I right?

Ambassador Wang: You’ll find out after the congress.

Cushla: There could be a first because a woman has been on the 25 committee, but I don't think one has ever been on the smaller (committee). Do you think there is some rising stars among Chinese woman politicians?

Ambassador Wang: That I think will be decided by the Congress that yet to take place. So we’d better wait until the result comes out.




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